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Post by Wolfrahm on Jul 28, 2012 14:18:12 GMT
Here is what it's seems like is going to happen according to what I've scraped of the forums and Moddb (Obviously anyone on the Mod team, do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong)... The Factions of Dawn of the Reapers* The Reapers: Their Diplomacy comes in the form of indoctrination. In other words a good diplomatic relationship with a Reaper faction just means that your faction is almost totally indoctrinated (with exceptions, see the other factions). The Reapers can use indoctrinated ships as envoys. 2* The Council: Receives massive bonuses from being allies with others of the same faction. The more allied Council factions, the stronger each faction will be as an individual. The council races depend on versatility and diversity as their main strength. Good diplomatic relations with a Council faction means just that (or something more sinister depending on the faction who is allied with the Council faction). Eventually the council might research "Leviathans" in order to have better relations with a Reaper faction without having to be fully indoctrinated. ** Cerberus: Diplomacy involves bribery and Black-mail. They use their spy-network to observe and manipulate both their allies and their enemies. 1 Able to deal with criminal factions (Pirates and mercenaries) much easier than the other factions can. 2If you are a Council faction and you've got a good diplomatic relationship with a Cerberus faction it means your faction is corrupt and filled with sleeper agents, double agents, traitors, spies and estate agents. If you are a Reaper faction and you've got good diplomatic relations with a Cerberus faction either the Cerberus faction is severely indoctrinated or the Cerberus faction has perfected (fully researched) their means of controlling the Reapers (Sanctuary Reaper Control research). The Resources of Dawn of the Reapers*** Crystal from vanilla SoaSE changed to = Eezo/Element ZeroElement Zero: found mainly in asteroids and satellites (moons) and also on planets nearby to their host star. *** Metal from vanilla SoaSE changed to = Resources(for ambiguity) Resources: consists of everything from heavy metals, light metals, metalloids and semi-metals, alloys and compounds, medi-gel, omni-gel, supplies, fertilizers and explosives, water, food, electronics and other manufactured products, ammunition, radioactive material and even in some cases man-power or work-force or just, in the Reaper's case, subjugated population ready to be processed into Reaper embryos. *** Credits from vanilla SoaSE stays = CreditsCredits!: Credits are the main resource for both Cerberus and the Council, but not for the Reapers as they really don't care about money. Culture from vanilla SoaSE changed to = Consensus*/ Communications* Communication lines are seen as the vanilla SoaSE culture lines/ coloured phase lanes. Planets connected by communications lines are more effectively managed due to proper coordination of resources. Effectively Communications has the same game mechanics as Culture, but just under a more relevant name. Reapers would be unaffected by enemy culture so it would make more sense for Communications to be implemented in its stead. Ships in combat in friendly Communications zones receive combat bonuses (just the same as vanilla SoaSE in friendly culture), but makes more sense than culture, as communication is vital in space warfare (and all forms of warfare to be precise) and culture is more of a cause of warfare and not as relevant in battle. When your Communications network overruns an enemy planet you are effectively cutting off that planet from the enemies' communication network. The Notes* This has not been confirmed, although the Mod team has said they would consider these suggestions. ** Has not yet been confirmed. *** Has been confirmed by the Mod Team. 1 xphoenixsquadx's suggestion. 2 andromeda's suggestion. If you agree, disagree or just want to make a suggestion please comment.
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Post by Admiral Anderson on Jul 28, 2012 17:22:11 GMT
I dont understand, does this mean that you can play as humans and be a part of the counsel, or is the counsel a all encompassing entity
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Post by Wolfrahm on Jul 28, 2012 17:33:20 GMT
The Council includes all the council races including the Alliance, STG etc... While cerburus is only human (If you consider husk-ified troops human)
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Post by Admiral Anderson on Jul 28, 2012 17:53:24 GMT
ahhh, so the more counsel races being played the better bonus, I get it
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Post by xphoenixsquadx on Jul 30, 2012 3:05:15 GMT
Cerberus could use bribing or intimidation for diplomacy and could have culture research that tracks the movements of other factions, kind of like the advent's eyes of the converted
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Post by andromeda on Aug 2, 2012 23:14:18 GMT
Well I may be new here. But I'm just going to leave my thoughts and suggestions casually. These are all based on observations I made by reading the Comics, Playing the Games and Researching your mod and Reading the game's wikia. I'm a bit of a Research nut so I spent a lot of time reading. Force of Habit since I have done Voice Acting work for a few mods and an Indie Fan Project on YouTube I tend to do a lot of research into subjects. That and.. well it's Mass Effect. Great Story and kinda pulls you in. And is quite emotional. I'm a sucker for Interactive Stories (e.g. Broken Sword)
Resources Crystal - Element Zero Lore wise this Element is located within Neutron and Pulsar System's. It is created as we know when Solid Matter (e.g. Planets) are subjected to the Energy of a Supernova. Typically only the most economically powerful corporations can afford to extract Element Zero due to the need for Mech's, Telepresence and Advanced Radiation Shielding due to the Neutron Radiation and other Deadly Radiation typically found in those systems. Eezo Research would to reflect the Universe be costly and slow but be very rewarding as those with a vast wealth of Element Zero, control fate of the Galaxy.
To reflect its Rarity in the game. Eezo would need to spawn only in Asteroid's or a new planet class, Stellar Remnant. Star's that have been thrown out of their system during the Super Nova Event that created its Element Zero rich core. Oddly even though lore wise Element Zero is only found in Pulsar and Neutron Star Systems as well as Systems that have gone Super Nova, during Mass Effect 2 it could be found in almost any old system. This could be the result of Seeding by natural causes. Such as when Eezo rich asteroids strike the planet. (A Real world example would be Iridium here on Earth with only 000.1ppm in the Crust). As such Moon's may contain Element Zero.
Metal - Supplies (I suggest Supplies over Resources. But gameplay wise would it even be possible to have a Planet generate Supplies itself? See below) Supplies are the combined output of a Planet's Industry and Extra-planetary Mining Operations. Such as Medicine, Clothes, Iridium, Palladium, Platinum, Alloy's, Food and Drink, Vehicles, Side Arms, Ammunition, Armour and even Computers. Anything Mined or Manufactured either by Industrial Stations, Mining Stations and Planets will contribute to your Supply lines. They are critical to the war effort and mean the difference between Freedom and Extinction.
Credit's - Credit's While it is staying the same Credit's are somewhat different for Mass Effect than Sin's. In the Mass Effect universe the Economy has effectively been slapped in the face with a stale fish and told "Deal with It" Thanks to the Reaper Invasion. This major disruption means people are less likely to sign up and work on Trade Ships. While Taxes still contribute to your economy it is not enough to maintain fleets and pay for maintenance. Credit's have lost much of their value. Credit's are generated at a slower rate without a safe Trade Network and without Research into "Economical Integrity" A research path that links with the Trade Research line. Without this The Economy will continue to degrade and a Galactic Recession will occur. Research includes militarizing Trade networks by adding Stronger Shields and Weapons to Trade Ships and upgrading them with new Armour allowing them to fend of Pirates and giving them faster FTL Drives to evade Geth, Cerberus and Reaper Attacks. Other research will include "Credit Austerity". While it can damage a planets Allegiance it will improve income rates on Planets with large populations while those with Smaller populations may suffer a larger Penalty. This is purely for Realism. While not mentioned in the games it is both Logical and Realistic that the Galactic Economy would be thrown into chaos thanks to the Reaper Invasion, Geth Attacks, Cerberus Raids, Pirate and Mercenary Raids and the attacks on Homeworlds such as Earth, Thessia and Palaven which has disrupted the Economies of the Humans, Asari and Turians.
Culture As we all know Culture is what distinguishes life in one group from another group. It is Music, Art, Fashion, Technology, Language, Ideology, Religion and History. In Sin's of a Solar Empire, Culture Spreads from Planet to Planet thanks to Networks of Stations known as Temples of Communion, Broadcast Centers, and Media Hubs. Spreading the "Culture" of the Humans, Vasari and Advent. Increasing and Decreasing Planet Allegiances. In this particular Mod it would function in a similar way to Vanilla Sin's.
The Culture that would represent Council Space would be Multiculturalism, Free Religion, Free Speech, Civil Rights and the many different aspects of the Council Races such as Humans, Asari, Turians, Salarians, Drell, Hanar, Elcor and the Volus. These Aspects would be the Languages, Art, Music and Ideals. This culture can spread quickly across Citadel worlds and can be quite difficult for Cerberus to deal with in both terms of Defending Against and attacking with their own Culture. But Reaper Indoctrination can easily overpower it without the right research such as Advanced Firewalls based on Prothean Tech and even using special made VI's with the same punch as EDI but without the danger of an AI.
As for Cerberus its Culture would be like Cerberus, Humanity Centered. It would be difficult for this Culture to be taken on by Council Worlds but those with a low allegiance level as it is can easily be swept up by this as Humans on the Planet will feel compelled to make a difference for themselves as Cerberus Culture would tempt Humans. With Research into Reaper tech such as the Illusive Man's desires to Control them Cerberus can make its Culture more aggressive and able to use a form of Subliminal messaging to take over populations without having to waste resources.
Reapers do not have a Culture. While they are the embodiment of countless Civilizations from many cycles they have since lost the need for Culture. Instead they Indoctrinate via a method of using either Infrasound or Ultrasound or even both to stimulate regions of the Brain to produce effects such as Paranoia and Hallucinations and even Pleasure by releasing Endorphins. Reapers and Collectors are Immune to Culture attacks but if a Reaper Occupied area has low Allegiance any Geth on the Planet could easily be "Reprogrammed" and absorbed back into the Primary Geth Faction (Assuming the mod takes place During Mass Effect 3 and Shepard helped Legion). Allowing these Geth to in a way "Revolt" and take over the planet due to what is basically the Reapers own Egotism and borderline arrogance in their power the Geth would easily take over as the Reapers don't invest much in defense. The low Reaper Presence on these Low Allegiance worlds would mean that the Geth would face little resistance. As the Reapers indoctrinate Organics and Hack synthetics. Council and Cerberus occupied worlds can easily be taken over by this powerful "Culture". While Council worlds with Allegiance levels higher than say around "70%" to "80%" Would have higher defense chances due to Asari resistance. (Based on that Asari have managed to break free easily or like Benezia can keep a "Free Heaven" in their minds) worlds with low Allegiance levels would be easily taken over due to weak minded citizens, Mech's to hack and VI's to also hack. Worlds with High Populations may be Easily taken over too as the Indoctrination can easily be used to affect masses of people.
Diplomacy The Council is basically a Democratic/Bureaucratic Alliance of different Government's. (Asari "Republic", Systems Alliance, Turian Hierarchy and Salarian Union etc) with Politicians elected for the Governing body. This Democratic Alliance (Democracy contains Bureaucracy) would have your standard run of the mill Diplomatic system. "Alliance's", "Non-Aggression Packs", "Cease Fire", "Trade Agreement", "Research Agreement" etc that would be typical to most Diplomatic systems for 4X Games like Vanilla Sins.
Diplomacy for Cerberus would not really be Diplomacy. Cerberus is not a Nation, Government or Alliance. It is essentially a Paramilitary Collective. Made up of Cells and the Wealthy organizations that sympathize with it. For them they "Negotiate" matters using Bribery, Blackmail, Subterfuge and Espionage in order to achieve their goals. They would give credits to get what they want. Strike deals with Pirates (Making the use of giving Missions to Pirates a sort of Bonus for this faction) and using their own take on the Tantalus Drive Core to disrupt Council Operations. Their Envoy ship would use this Drive Core. Sneak in and use its abilities to disrupt the planet below and damage its allegiance and Contribution to the player's networks. And even commit acts of sabotage to blow stations up. These would have while negative impacts on the other player it is possible to have Special packs for the Cerberus faction that are unlocked with a sufficiently High enough or Low enough rating to activate.
Reapers have little to zero use for Diplomacy. Their entire Diplomacy Research tree would be devoted to Indoctrinating. Their Envoy's would be an Indoctrinated ship. Of any design (Alliance, Asari, Turian, Salarian, Volus, Quarian or General Civilian design) where the Indoctrinated ship could contain Reaper tech to spread the Indoctrination causing an Increase in Diplomatic rating allowing the player to bend the AI to its will. While a Human player would obviously say no to the Reaper unless they wanted to try and be somewhat Double Agent'y to use the Reapers for their own gains (e.g. Cerberus players) the Reaper player could use this to take over this players worlds with little resistance. Or even use it to get to an otherwise inaccessible area such as another, weaker player.
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Post by Wolfrahm on Aug 3, 2012 20:20:44 GMT
That there is meaty but overcooked suggestion (It is a suggestion right?).
I'll put some of it on the top, but some of the the stuff you suggest would take the reconstructing of the SoaSE game engine to work, so you're going to have to talk to the actual modders if your adamant about it. (take note that I'm NOT on the modding team.)
Thanks for the input!
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Post by andromeda on Aug 3, 2012 20:28:42 GMT
A Suggestion and an observation in one post really.
What things would require the reconstruction of the game engine exactly?
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Post by Wolfrahm on Aug 3, 2012 21:03:05 GMT
Ha. well I'm no modder but even I can see that.
Most of your aspects under your Resources heading have already been taken into consideration, though I admit your knowledge of Eezo is more extensive than mine, so I agree with you in consideration of Eezo. Credits will stay as they are because while it is a time of war, a standard currency is still needed and only the most greedy people would exploit others during a war for their very survival. Supply lines/trade networks would of-course be disrupted, but that would fall under Communications as more communicating means higher Communications and so better organization, and resource management.
Most of the aspects you state under your culture heading, are a bit too micro-orientated for a macro scale game.
But worry not! Instead of Culture there is Communications, which would make more sense considering the context.
Lastly most of your suggestions are already the reasons why I suggested it to the mod team. Your reasons for resources, eezo and council diplomacy have been are similar to the reasons I gave. Some of these aspects had already been considered by the mod team before you or I suggested them.
It kinda seems like your telling me my own reasons or are you just confirming that you approve or checking whether I've considered these aspects, If the latter two then it's nice to know some people think like I do
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Post by andromeda on Aug 3, 2012 21:35:15 GMT
I agree with your suggestions. I was just making observations and adding my own to it all.
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spud
Salarian Hatchling
Posts: 10
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Post by spud on Sept 13, 2012 9:22:08 GMT
What would the trade ships look like. Cause for the Citudule races it is a must and even for Cerberus they are needed.
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Post by epelix on Sept 13, 2012 12:41:03 GMT
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spud
Salarian Hatchling
Posts: 10
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Post by spud on Sept 14, 2012 11:09:24 GMT
i had a feeling that might have been the colony frigate i am not sure buts its one of the two
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Post by davidt0504 on Oct 9, 2012 17:17:59 GMT
moved from other thread: Just ignore the parts about the Council races as I know they are discussed above.
If I remember correctly, the plan for the Council races is to convert Credits, Metal, and Crystal into Credits, Resources, and Element Zero respectively right?
I was just thinking about how this should work for the other factions. Cerberus can probably still use the same three as the Council but the Reapers (according to the ME3 codex) don't use the same stuff. They obviously aren't going to use the same currency as the galactic economy and they don't use the same resources or fuel that the organics used (they destroyed infrastructure and ignored resources). So I was thinking that we could basically go with the theme of how many planets/people/technology they've harvested. Those aren't necessarily the three, I was just thinking of different ideas.
On that note. Culture should stay culture for Council. It should be influence (or corruption maybe) for Cerberus. It should be indoctrination for Reapers.
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Post by Wolfrahm on Oct 9, 2012 17:31:40 GMT
All factions will have to have the same resource types as the game engine doesn't support different types of resources for seperate factions. My resource ideas for concerning the different factions is lore friendly and the Reapers will have credits as a resource type but they will not use it much at all anyway. For the "Culture" aspect you'd want it to be the same for all the factions anyway, as it is a global factor . I strongly believe Communications is a much better idea than Culture, but I seem to be alone in wanting that to happen. No one has agreed with me so far on that aspect. Personally I think Communications would work quite well,just read how I think it should work above.
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