Post by cptdata on Jun 15, 2013 9:53:46 GMT
Hey guys 
Before I start I'd like to say "thanks for making this awesome mod". I'm going to enjoy it for sure and won't miss the first day of release (hope so). Obviously, I'm a fan of the famous Mass Effect series and, despite all issues in ME3, it still remains as one of the best computer gaming series in history.
(Tbh: those issues make me wishing for becoming lead writer in case of a reboot, but that's another story *g*).
Lets go.
========
Currently I'm trying to write my own ME story based on the events from ME1 to post ME3. And that also requires reviewing the lore - and fix issues. Like space combat, like how weapons, barriers and co work.
Thing is: the "old" ME1 lore described space combat as quite realistic but boring; the scenes we saw in game break that lore. So it's much easier to make space combat look like the scenes ingame than following the original lore, which also isn't very game friendly.
However, some stuff should make it into the mod. That's mostly stuff about weaponry and defense systems.
I - Barriers
The "shields" in ME. Barriers are able to stop projectiles before they can do real damage. In difference to other SciFi shields, ME shields are no bubbles and they're not always "up". Instead of said bubble, computer controlled barrier generators generate tiny Mass Effect fields in a projectile's trajectory. Only as 'threat' classed projectiles are tracked by that computer, so if a projectile is too small or has too little kinetic energy, it won't get classed as a threat at all. Also missiles, fighters and torpedoes are not classed as threats.
In theory, only projectiles NOT classed as threat get through barriers - and those who're too powerful to get stopped. A frigate won't have barriers strong enough to stop a dreadnaughts main gun projectile!
In real combat, barriers are not perfect in any way. They can get overwhelmed by sheer amount of projectiles. Also every blocked projectile generates load and heat for generators, causing them to shut down if overstressed (that's the way how to take down a Sovereign class dreadnaught).
Also particle weapons can get through barriers: every single particle IS a projectile in fact, butit's not classed as a threat. Therefore a particle beam won't even get blocked and can cut through armor like water cuts through stone - just a trillion times faster.
In DotR mod, barriers should work in a similar way - which means the original Sins shields don't fit the idea. To represent the ME shields in Rebellion, they need to have following attributes:
- Mitigation starts at very high level (>75%)
- Mitigation gets reduced the more ships firing at that ship / station
- Minimum Mitigation is 5%
- Barriers don't block missiles, torpedoes or mines
- Barriers don't block energy weapons
- Barriers don't block particle weapons
- Barriers don't block Reaper "beam" weapons
- Damage threshold low: if a projectile has too little power, it does not reduce mitigation and only very little damage to armor, if at all
- Damage threshold high: if a projectile weapon has too much power, it punches through, dealing full damage
-----------------
II - GARDIAN
The ME version of a point defense system (PD). The way it's described in the lore makes sense, however, it's rarely shown in the ingame footage. I'd love to see it in the mod, however.
GARDIAN is based on lasers (the Alliance also might use a projectile weapon based PD) and it's designed to take out any threats not dealt by the barriers. That includes fighters, bombers, missiles, torpedoes and any slow moving projectile like tiny asteroids.
Most cruisers and dreadnaughts bear enough GARDIAN lasers to create a "dome" that fully neutralizes any incoming slow moving projectiles. GARDIAN and barriers working together could grant maximum protection to any ship. However, that's just theory, as I said.
GARDIAN lasers have a tendency to overheat. While the first couple of shots do always hit, in a prolonged battle GARDIAN loses accuracy with every further shot, rendering it useless after a while. Also that PD can get overstressed by too many incoming missiles, fighters and such.
How should GARDIAN work in DotR?
The PD could work as a "secondary" shield. I'm not sure if the engine supports multible shields, so I'll show you two ideas how to create GARDIAN.
The shield idea generates less CPU load, the "real" PD idea might cause issues.
-1- as #2 shields
- Mitigation does not reduce damage but chance to hit hull
- Mitigation starts at 100% (0% chance to hit hull)
- Mitigation gets reduced by any deflected hit
- Mitigation doesn't regenerate while in battle
- If a missile/torpedo goes through, it does 100% damage
- Projectile weapons don't get deflected
- Energy weapons don't get deflected
- Particle weapons don't get deflected
- Reaper weapons don't get deflected
-2- as -real- PD system
- PD weapon does no damage to hulls except fighters
- PD weapon starts with 100% chance to hit
- PD weapon chance to hit gets reduced with every fired PD shot
- PD weapon chance to hit does not regenerate while in battle
- PD weapon can destroy / critically damage any missile / fighter / torpedo / mine with one shot
- PD weapon ignores other projectiles
-----------------
III - ECM, ECCM, Stealth
*coming soon*
========================
Summary of all four defense systems working together
If two ships of a similar class fight each other, it's pretty much a stalemate, even if that fight takes hours. In the long run the ship with better defensive systems might win the battle.
However, if two fleets engage in a battle, most ships will get destroyed in the first wave since multiple projectiles punch through the barriers. GARDIAN might burn out quite fast and ECM is not powerful enough to misguide all incoming threats.
Armor might absorb smaller projectiles, but can't take the beating of multiple armor-breaching impacts.
Therefore fleet combat is entirely different from what we know in Sins. Smaller groups of ships can engage in combat much longer than big fleets since they have more space to dodge incoming threats (in difference to the tight formation of a fleet). GARDIAN doesn't burn out that fast and barriers won't get overwhelmed by sheer amount of projectiles. So you bet it's more save to engage one Reaper at a time with smaller fleets than engaging a full fleet of Reapers with an armada. You can't win this - as you can see in the final battle for Earth. Without Shepard's sacrifice, the united fleets wouldn't have lasted much longer. And that was just one Reaper armada.
In Sins, however, bigger fleets mean a higher chance to survive a battle. If the lore is used as presented in ME, big fleets are not that much of an advantage anymore - but you might need to use them. Three Reapers still require a several dozens of cruisers and dreadnaughts to be dealt with.
========================
IV - Armor
Good ol' fashioned armor, based on the Sins system. I don't think there's much to add here, except the way how incoming damage is dealt with.
In ME, a projectile that gets through barriers is either too weak to be considered as a threat and won't do damage at all - or it's too powerful to get blocked successfully. That means barriers and armor need to be balanced in the mod in a way it feels like ME combat.
In DotR, armor is the last line of defense. So if ECM, GARDIAN and barriers fail, the ship's armor makes a difference of surviving a hit or getting destroyed.
No Upgrade:
- Armor threshold needs to be balanced with barriers threshold
- Armor threshold low: incoming damage is 0
- Armor threshold high: incoming damage is 100%
- Armor threshold between both: incoming projectile damage is reduced by armor level (armor 46 = 46%)
- Armor reduces explosive damage by 1/2 armor level (armor 46 = 23%)
- Armor does not reduce damage dealt by particle weapons
- Armor does not reduce damage dealt by Reaper weapons
Upgrade: Silaris Armor
- Armor threshold needs to be balanced with barriers threshold
- Armor threshold low: incoming damage is 0
- Armor threshold high: incoming damage is 80%
- Armor threshold between both: incoming projectile damage is reduced by armor level + 20% (armor 46 = 66%)
- Armor reduces explosive damage by armor level (armor 46 = 46%)
- Armor does reduces damage dealt by particle weapons by 1/2 armor level (armor 46 = 23%)
- Armor does reduces damage dealt by Reaper weapons by 1/2 armor level (armor 46 = 23%)
Of course, that's just an idea how things might work in ME ... ^^
-----------------
V - Projectile Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
VI - Particle Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
VII - Energy Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
VIII - Missiles, Torpedoes, Mines
*coming soon*
-----------------
IX - Reaper Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
Before I start I'd like to say "thanks for making this awesome mod". I'm going to enjoy it for sure and won't miss the first day of release (hope so). Obviously, I'm a fan of the famous Mass Effect series and, despite all issues in ME3, it still remains as one of the best computer gaming series in history.
(Tbh: those issues make me wishing for becoming lead writer in case of a reboot, but that's another story *g*).
Lets go.
========
Currently I'm trying to write my own ME story based on the events from ME1 to post ME3. And that also requires reviewing the lore - and fix issues. Like space combat, like how weapons, barriers and co work.
Thing is: the "old" ME1 lore described space combat as quite realistic but boring; the scenes we saw in game break that lore. So it's much easier to make space combat look like the scenes ingame than following the original lore, which also isn't very game friendly.
However, some stuff should make it into the mod. That's mostly stuff about weaponry and defense systems.
I - Barriers
The "shields" in ME. Barriers are able to stop projectiles before they can do real damage. In difference to other SciFi shields, ME shields are no bubbles and they're not always "up". Instead of said bubble, computer controlled barrier generators generate tiny Mass Effect fields in a projectile's trajectory. Only as 'threat' classed projectiles are tracked by that computer, so if a projectile is too small or has too little kinetic energy, it won't get classed as a threat at all. Also missiles, fighters and torpedoes are not classed as threats.
In theory, only projectiles NOT classed as threat get through barriers - and those who're too powerful to get stopped. A frigate won't have barriers strong enough to stop a dreadnaughts main gun projectile!
In real combat, barriers are not perfect in any way. They can get overwhelmed by sheer amount of projectiles. Also every blocked projectile generates load and heat for generators, causing them to shut down if overstressed (that's the way how to take down a Sovereign class dreadnaught).
Also particle weapons can get through barriers: every single particle IS a projectile in fact, butit's not classed as a threat. Therefore a particle beam won't even get blocked and can cut through armor like water cuts through stone - just a trillion times faster.
In DotR mod, barriers should work in a similar way - which means the original Sins shields don't fit the idea. To represent the ME shields in Rebellion, they need to have following attributes:
- Mitigation starts at very high level (>75%)
- Mitigation gets reduced the more ships firing at that ship / station
- Minimum Mitigation is 5%
- Barriers don't block missiles, torpedoes or mines
- Barriers don't block energy weapons
- Barriers don't block particle weapons
- Barriers don't block Reaper "beam" weapons
- Damage threshold low: if a projectile has too little power, it does not reduce mitigation and only very little damage to armor, if at all
- Damage threshold high: if a projectile weapon has too much power, it punches through, dealing full damage
-----------------
II - GARDIAN
The ME version of a point defense system (PD). The way it's described in the lore makes sense, however, it's rarely shown in the ingame footage. I'd love to see it in the mod, however.
GARDIAN is based on lasers (the Alliance also might use a projectile weapon based PD) and it's designed to take out any threats not dealt by the barriers. That includes fighters, bombers, missiles, torpedoes and any slow moving projectile like tiny asteroids.
Most cruisers and dreadnaughts bear enough GARDIAN lasers to create a "dome" that fully neutralizes any incoming slow moving projectiles. GARDIAN and barriers working together could grant maximum protection to any ship. However, that's just theory, as I said.
GARDIAN lasers have a tendency to overheat. While the first couple of shots do always hit, in a prolonged battle GARDIAN loses accuracy with every further shot, rendering it useless after a while. Also that PD can get overstressed by too many incoming missiles, fighters and such.
How should GARDIAN work in DotR?
The PD could work as a "secondary" shield. I'm not sure if the engine supports multible shields, so I'll show you two ideas how to create GARDIAN.
The shield idea generates less CPU load, the "real" PD idea might cause issues.
-1- as #2 shields
- Mitigation does not reduce damage but chance to hit hull
- Mitigation starts at 100% (0% chance to hit hull)
- Mitigation gets reduced by any deflected hit
- Mitigation doesn't regenerate while in battle
- If a missile/torpedo goes through, it does 100% damage
- Projectile weapons don't get deflected
- Energy weapons don't get deflected
- Particle weapons don't get deflected
- Reaper weapons don't get deflected
-2- as -real- PD system
- PD weapon does no damage to hulls except fighters
- PD weapon starts with 100% chance to hit
- PD weapon chance to hit gets reduced with every fired PD shot
- PD weapon chance to hit does not regenerate while in battle
- PD weapon can destroy / critically damage any missile / fighter / torpedo / mine with one shot
- PD weapon ignores other projectiles
-----------------
III - ECM, ECCM, Stealth
*coming soon*
========================
Summary of all four defense systems working together
If two ships of a similar class fight each other, it's pretty much a stalemate, even if that fight takes hours. In the long run the ship with better defensive systems might win the battle.
However, if two fleets engage in a battle, most ships will get destroyed in the first wave since multiple projectiles punch through the barriers. GARDIAN might burn out quite fast and ECM is not powerful enough to misguide all incoming threats.
Armor might absorb smaller projectiles, but can't take the beating of multiple armor-breaching impacts.
Therefore fleet combat is entirely different from what we know in Sins. Smaller groups of ships can engage in combat much longer than big fleets since they have more space to dodge incoming threats (in difference to the tight formation of a fleet). GARDIAN doesn't burn out that fast and barriers won't get overwhelmed by sheer amount of projectiles. So you bet it's more save to engage one Reaper at a time with smaller fleets than engaging a full fleet of Reapers with an armada. You can't win this - as you can see in the final battle for Earth. Without Shepard's sacrifice, the united fleets wouldn't have lasted much longer. And that was just one Reaper armada.
In Sins, however, bigger fleets mean a higher chance to survive a battle. If the lore is used as presented in ME, big fleets are not that much of an advantage anymore - but you might need to use them. Three Reapers still require a several dozens of cruisers and dreadnaughts to be dealt with.
========================
IV - Armor
Good ol' fashioned armor, based on the Sins system. I don't think there's much to add here, except the way how incoming damage is dealt with.
In ME, a projectile that gets through barriers is either too weak to be considered as a threat and won't do damage at all - or it's too powerful to get blocked successfully. That means barriers and armor need to be balanced in the mod in a way it feels like ME combat.
In DotR, armor is the last line of defense. So if ECM, GARDIAN and barriers fail, the ship's armor makes a difference of surviving a hit or getting destroyed.
No Upgrade:
- Armor threshold needs to be balanced with barriers threshold
- Armor threshold low: incoming damage is 0
- Armor threshold high: incoming damage is 100%
- Armor threshold between both: incoming projectile damage is reduced by armor level (armor 46 = 46%)
- Armor reduces explosive damage by 1/2 armor level (armor 46 = 23%)
- Armor does not reduce damage dealt by particle weapons
- Armor does not reduce damage dealt by Reaper weapons
Upgrade: Silaris Armor
- Armor threshold needs to be balanced with barriers threshold
- Armor threshold low: incoming damage is 0
- Armor threshold high: incoming damage is 80%
- Armor threshold between both: incoming projectile damage is reduced by armor level + 20% (armor 46 = 66%)
- Armor reduces explosive damage by armor level (armor 46 = 46%)
- Armor does reduces damage dealt by particle weapons by 1/2 armor level (armor 46 = 23%)
- Armor does reduces damage dealt by Reaper weapons by 1/2 armor level (armor 46 = 23%)
Of course, that's just an idea how things might work in ME ... ^^
-----------------
V - Projectile Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
VI - Particle Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
VII - Energy Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------
VIII - Missiles, Torpedoes, Mines
*coming soon*
-----------------
IX - Reaper Weapons
*coming soon*
-----------------